Legislature(2007 - 2008)BELTZ 211
02/19/2008 09:00 AM Senate STATE AFFAIRS
| Audio | Topic |
|---|---|
| Start | |
| SB185 | |
| SB202 | |
| Adjourn |
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
| += | SB 185 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| += | SB 202 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| + | TELECONFERENCED |
SB 202-PROHIBIT STATE SPENDING FOR REAL ID ACT
CHAIR MCGUIRE announced the consideration of SB 202.
SENATOR BILL WIELECHOWSKI, Alaska State Legislature, said he has
had discussions with the DMV, and the bill is straight forward.
It is not intended to hinder the state's ability to detect
forged licenses or to strengthen Alaska's licenses. The bill has
a referral to the judiciary committee, and if there is a better
technical way of writing it, that will be fine.
9:29:02 AM
SENATOR BUNDE said last week a testifier implied that anyone who
opposes SB 202 is "good German" and has Nazi tendencies. Senator
Bunde asked if two people can have different opinions and be
good Americans. He said he resents the idea that he is deficient
in his patriotism if he doesn't think like someone else. He sees
two issues: one is the state helping fund a federal program.
That is worthy of discussion. The second issue is using the
driver's license as a national I.D. The last bill referred to a
sex offender having a driver's license. "We surely want a valid
driver's license in that case … established under some
verifiable criteria and not … a false identity." He doesn't buy
into the idea that Real I.D. is a black helicopter conspiracy -
it is just part of the complex society that we live in.
9:31:17 AM
SENATOR BUNDE said Alaska can protest mightily, but if we cannot
provide our citizens with a valid identification, Alaskans
cannot get on an airplane or go into a federal facility. "We may
have a temporary feel-good reaction to defying these
requirements, but in the end I believe we would just cause our
citizens to have unnecessary problems." He objects to the bill.
CHAIR MCGUIRE said the administration warned that there are
things that DMV is doing that this bill might jeopardize.
9:33:28 AM
WHITNEY BREWSTER, Director, Division of Motor Vehicles (DMV),
Anchorage, said Alaska has sought an extension to comply with
the Real I.D. Act and it was granted. Over 40 states have
submitted extensions. The extension will terminate December 31,
2009 unless Alaska shows it has met material compliance. She
said compliance has 18 benchmarks, which should be in the
committee packets. The Department of Homeland Security (DHS)
chose a phased-in approach. People under 50 will have to have
the I.D.s by December 2014. For a person over 50, the date is
2017. That is far off and should allow people sufficient time.
9:35:54 AM
MS. BREWSTER said there are three levels of security: overt,
which can be seen with the naked eye; covert, which is visible
with commercially available equipment; and forensic, which is
visible only to specialized equipment not commercially
available. The DMV now has two levels of security on the
license: overt and covert. If the card is not compliant, DMV
would have to print clearly, on its face, that it may not be
accepted by any federal agency for official purposes. It would
have a special color to alert federal agents. The cards must
have a full legal name, gender, date of birth, a unique number,
a digital photograph, tampering prevention feature, a signature,
machine-readable technology (like the bar code), date of
transaction, expiration date, and state of issuance. Alaska
licenses have those. The requirement that Alaska doesn't have is
the person's principal residence address. Another requirement of
Real I.D. is physical presence, and SB 215 just passed in this
committee. Most states have passed legal presence bills. There
are six that do not require legal presence, including Alaska.
Real I.D. requires ongoing fraud training, and the DMV already
goes through such training and would like to continue.
9:39:41 AM
MS. BREWSTER said the Real I.D. Act also requires the
verification of source data by electronic means; DMV must verify
a birth certificate electronically. States will be required to
verify immigration documents through the Systematic Alien
Verification for Entitlement System (SAVE). If the information
doesn't match that system, Alaska would not issue the I.D. The
SAVE system is being tested, but it still may have some kinks.
Alaska is not hooked up to that system. States also have to
verify social security numbers with the Social Security
Administration, and any non-match would not allow the Real I.D.
to be issued. Alaska is hooked up to that system and does
matches. The third system is the electronic verification of
vital events. The state is not hooked up to that system.
9:42:09 AM
MS. BREWSTER said Alaska would also be required to verify the
I.D. with other states to make sure that another I.D. had not
been issued. That system doesn't exist. There are grants
available to create a hub so that the states can interact. Real
I.D. would also require states to have a plan that would
physically secure facilities. It would require employee
background checks and periodic training. That plan would have to
be approved through the DHS. She said the division does not have
the necessary funding to fully comply with Real I.D. There are
things that the division is doing and would like to continue
doing, but the bottom line is that it will be back looking for
money in order to comply with Real I.D.
9:44:41 AM
SENATOR BUNDE said under the current law a person moving from
another state must give up their old license. Is there a period
of time that they are required to get a new license?
MS. BREWSTER said yes, within 90 days, but a vehicle is only 30.
SENATOR BUNDE noted that the only thing that the DMV doesn't
already do [that the Real I.D. Act requires] is put a residence
address on, and that shouldn't be costly. The costs would come
from the various data exchange systems.
MS. BREWSTER agreed. There will also be the cost of any security
changes to the DMV buildings. She roughly estimates a cost of $2
million. There are other agencies that Real I.D. will impact,
like the vital statistics database.
SENATOR STEVENS asked if the state intends to eventually comply.
MS. BREWSTER said if Alaska had not sought an extension, it
would have had to comply with Real I.D. by May 11, 2008. The
extension goes through the end of 2009, but the state didn't
commit to comply or not to comply. Many states passed
legislation prohibiting compliance and still got the extension.
9:47:57 AM
MS. BREWSTER said if Alaska gets a second extension, it will
then have to promise to comply.
SENATOR FRENCH asked about federal funds to pay for compliance.
MS. BREWSTER said there are funds available from the DHS. Alaska
has not requested nor received any federal funds.
SENATOR FRENCH said there may be ways to make Alaska I.D.s more
secure that would be worth pursuing, but they may not be in
compliance with the Real I.D. Act. Those are things that are
worth spending state money on, "but I keep going back to the
fundamental idea that if the federal government wants us to do
certain things, to get in compliance with their rules, they
should pay for it."
9:50:03 AM
SENATOR BUNDE said the airports are now looking at I.D.s under a
black light. He asked how many times the state has changed its
driver's license to make it more secure from fraud.
MS. BREWSTER said she doesn't know, but in 2004 the state moved
to the digital driver's license -- a vast improvement. "We would
like to be able to continue to implement best practices and make
improvements to our documents."
SENATOR BUNDE asked if there was a value in adding resident
addresses to the licenses.
MS. BREWSTER said it may help law enforcement, and the
information is captured anyway. There is an exception for
victims of domestic violence, she noted.
9:52:22 AM
SENATOR BUNDE said the state issues a similar card for those who
do not drive that can be used as an I.D.
CHAIR MCGUIRE asked her about legislative opinions on Real I.D.
When the DMV makes decisions about driver's license
requirements, "do you look to Real I.D., and if so, do you
reflect on discussions that the legislature had last year, or in
other places, rejecting the concept of Real I.D.?"
MS. BREWSTER said she has reviewed testimony on the Real I.D.
She considers the statements from the legislature. She also
looks at existing law and best practices from other states. The
American Association of Motor Vehicle Administrators puts out
best practices. All those things are considered.
CHAIR MCGUIRE said she wants a review meeting on this, but there
are so many strongly held viewpoints. Some people are concerned
that DMV has gone ahead with implementing the underlying tenets
of Real I.D. over the objections of the legislature. It is a
fine line to walk regarding what makes a driver's license better
and what is a direct effort at complying with a federal mandate
that some disagree with.
9:55:54 AM
SENATOR GREEN said Mr. Kevin Brooks testified that the state did
not intend to implement the Real I.D. Act.
CHAIR MCGUIRE said she wants to draw attention to the chatter in
the halls. It is controversial and she wants to send a clear
message, whichever it might be.
KEVIN BROOKS, Deputy Commissioner, Department of Administration
(DOA), said the division has not charged ahead with the Real
I.D. Act. It only recently briefed the governor and just got the
rules last month. "We have not been just charging ahead on this;
we're trying to responsibly run the DMV." Regarding HB 3 and
legal presence, there was concern that the department had gone
ahead and implemented regulations, and that is not true. The
regulations were years in the making. They were clean-up
regulations for when the DMV moved from the Department of Public
Safety to the DOA. Efforts often seem to have ties to
requirements of the Real I.D, but it couldn't be further from
the truth. He spoke of a case that was dismissed.
CHAIR MCGUIRE asked if it was dismissed on a technicality and
lack of standing on the part of the plaintiff. She thought there
was no substantive ruling.
MR. BROOKS said that is true.
MR. BROOKS said there was mention of money for scanners. The DMV
uses scanners regularly, but the question is about data storage.
"We haven't spent the money; we've told people we weren't going
to spend the money until the issue was cleared up."
9:59:29 AM
CHAIR MCGUIRE said she appreciates it and is just raising the
issue. "With the scanners in Senator Steven's resolution on the
federal level, the concern is that some of the folks in Real
I.D. have envisioned the scanners as a human tracking devices,
and I think that's the concern you are hearing … in the building
about scanners."
MR. BROOKS said he can wave his wallet with a chip in it to
enter his office. There is concern that a similar chip will be
in driver's licenses. The scanners the DMV is talking about are
desktop document scanners.
SENATOR STEVENS said the extension is temporary without
committing to the program. "But that is a real come-to-Jesus
moment, because as she has said … if we ask for another
extension, we have to show that we are making material
advances." He asked how Alaska gets to that point. There are a
lot of legislators around the country that oppose it. They have
focused on the issue of not paying for it. "Even if the feds
said we will pay for everything, there's still going to be
people who say we don't want to do it anyway." He asked how
Alaska is preparing for that next step.
10:02:01 AM
MR. BROOKS said that is the point of the dialogue. A second
extension implies that the state is going forward. Alaska is
already in compliance in many ways but not with the data sharing
and linking, which is the key part. He only received the final
rules last month. Alaska will be working with other states, the
National Governors Association, and the congressional
delegation. He will come back to discuss what has been learned -
even during the interim if the legislature wants that.
CHAIR MCGUIRE said the legislature can be a conduit to
continuing the discussion.
MR. BROOKS said state legislative groups can help as well.
SENATOR FRENCH asked if the administration has a position.
MR. BROOKS said no, but it does not want to compromise any best
practices. The built-in safeguard is the lack of money to
comply, so the administration will need to return for funding.
10:04:58 AM
MIKE [unknown last name] said 17 states have passed legislation
opposing Real I.D. and 15 have pending legislation. Why such a
strong reaction to a driver's license? Because the Real I.D. is
un-American. It would make Stalin proud. Our founding fathers
embraced freedom even though they realized it could bring
terrorism. People have always been willing to die and kill for a
cause, but founders saw the incredible benefits that transformed
this country into something never seen before. America offered
freedom and real opportunity. Stalin's paranoia is legendary,
and DHS is acting the same way. DHS needs to feel in control of
everyone. The I.D. is an internal passport with a person's most
private information, including birth certificates, driving
records, and social security numbers. It will be remotely
accessible to police and hackers. It will be accessible without
a search warrant. It is different from the state license in that
the "feds" are taking over and creating networks in order to
monitor and track the movement of citizens. It is not a
government of a free country, but a government right for abuse.
10:08:00 AM
SENATOR BUNDE said the witness doesn't live in Alaska, and "we
don't give a damn how they do it outside."
GARY LUND, Anchorage, said he is against SB 202. He said he
speaks Spanish and is aware of illegal immigration. He said
there are 5,000 illegal immigrants in Alaska. Last week one was
sentenced to 11 years in federal prions for cocaine. One stabbed
and paralyzed a Native woman several years ago. In Delta
Junction a man sold false agricultural statements to 60 illegal
aliens for $3,000 each. Every day 12 Americans are murdered by
illegal aliens, 13 die in traffic accidents with drunken illegal
aliens, and 8 American children are molested by illegal aliens.
The state has to identify people until the federal government
does something about it.
10:10:14 AM
FRANK TURNEY, Fairbanks, said he loves his country but he
doesn't trust it. He likes the freedoms given to him by the
creator. George Mason would not sign the Constitution because it
didn't protect people against the government. The Real I.D. Act
violates the fourth amendment rights to privacy. This new
Orwellian driver's license will be imbedded with identifier data
and will rape rights to privacy, creating a socialistic/fascist
country with no checks and balances. "I support 202 to halt any
expenditures that will pay for the importation of the so-called
I.D. act for Alaskans." That includes federal money as well. It
is time to stand up for the fourth amendment. He said to look at
Montana as a good example. Interior Alaska groups have passed
resolutions opposing the act.
10:12:24 AM
JOHN BRADING, Fairbanks, spoke against state funding for the
Real I.D. Act. He proposed the stronger language in Montana. The
act is "another relentless long train of abuse and assault on
our U.S. freedoms." It is an instrument of totalitarianism that
manipulates people into servitude. Travel is inalienable and
existed before government. If the Real I.D. Act is implemented,
"we the people" become "we the cattle people." It will start a
vicious system dedicated to "robbing and abusing us." Not taking
a stand would be a gross failure to defend the constitution. It
will have hidden consequences.
DUFFY HALLADAY, Fairbanks, said a national I.D. goes against the
Constitution, which says that citizens have the right to travel
freely. There were no license plates or I.D.s for the covered
wagons because people had the right to travel. "Already in
place, people are identified by six items: state driver's
license, social security, internal revenue…, finger prints,
passports, and visas. I say enough is enough." A national I.D.
is not the way to go. He asked for stronger language in SB 202.
10:15:41 AM
DAVID AKEN, Fairbanks, said he is here to stand up for the
freedoms for his children and his wife. Germany had a national
I.D. system and it was abused by Hitler and used against the
Jewish people. He thinks that same abuse can happen in America.
GLORIA DEROCHERS, Fairbanks, asked what ever happened to the
fourth amendment: "the right of the people to be secure in their
person, houses, papers, and effects shall not be violated." The
legislature has sworn to protect the Constitution and Bill of
Rights. It will be interesting to see which legislators "walk
their talk." The Real I.D. Act is an attack on liberty. "We are
supposed to be a republic." The sole purpose of our government
is to protect the rights of its citizens. This national database
will not make people safer; it puts every American's entire life
on one accessible hard drive. Someone can break in and get bank,
health, credit card, gun, and social security information. "When
I refuse a Real I.D. card I will be denied the right to work" as
well as open a bank account, board an airplane, drive her truck,
and access federal property. The scariest part is that the
agency will not prevent the use of the card by private parties
for non-government purposes. All the sensitive data on the card
will not be encrypted. A fourth grader will be able to read the
card. Those who give up essential liberty for temporary safety
deserve neither, as Benjamin Franklin said. She said to pursue
Montana's plan of completely rejecting the Real I.D. She said a
friend wrote her testimony, but she agrees with it.
10:19:43 AM
SCHAEFFER COX, Fairbanks, said he supports SB 202. America was a
young and free nation, and it was a seed of human creativity
watered by freedom and prosperity that made it the envy of the
world overnight. It is now surrounded by the threat of terror
and by threats of the government pulling funding from roads and
airports if the state doesn't use the Real I.D. Homeland
Security cannot deliver on the promise of keeping citizens
secure. There is a small benefit to the Real I.D. Act against
almost certain abuse. It is too great of a power to hand over to
successors. "We are not willing to sell off our freedoms that
were bought with blood and riches for the small price of roads
and airports or any other federal funding that is of no use to a
people who are no longer free." "If you support the Real I.D. in
your heart, and cannot accept it as a matter of principal, I
commend you. You have my support and the support of those I
represent." … "If, on the other hand, you have given token
opposition as you sell off our liberty, little by little, to
maintain federal funding of programs that will be of no
consequence to a people who are no longer free, then may your
cowardly disservice to us all weigh heavily on you conscience."
10:22:13 AM
STEPHEN FARRINGTON, Fairbanks, said he is "very, very
disappointed in my Republicans for not supporting this bill." It
is disturbing that they have the strongest opposition to SB 202.
CHAIR MCGUIRE asked who he is referring to.
MR. FARRINGTON said Senator Bunde.
CHAIR MCGUIRE said he referred to more than one.
MR. FARRINGTON said there will be a state convention in March
for Republicans. Most people come to Alaska for privacy. He said
the sponsor statement for SB 202 is beautiful, but the body of
the bill is weak. There are many people preparing for civil
disobedience to refuse the Real I.D Act, and he asked the
legislature to set an example.
10:23:54 AM
SENATOR FRENCH moved SB 202 from committee with individual
recommendations and attached fiscal note(s). There being no
objection, the motion carried.
SENATOR BUNDE objected. He said there was a lot of heartfelt
testimony, and he will respect those opinions if those
testifiers respect his. "I don't hew to the Communist party
line, the Nazi party line, or the Republican party line." He
makes judgments based on common sense. It is American to
disagree without finding the other person evil or stupid.
A roll call vote was taken. Senators McGuire, French, and
Stevens voted for SB 202, and Senator Bunde voted against it.
Therefore SB 202 passed out of committee on a vote of 3:1.
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